cotton frame id

[mark2]

I have most of a cotton in bits , can anyone help with model year etc the frame number is 553 forks look like druid and it has come with 2 Jap engines thankyou

[cardan]

Wow, that question would floor most people at a quiz night.

Sounds like a nice project. With a frame number in the 500s I suppose it's early 1920s, maybe 23-24, but some photos would help. There is a Cotton Club and no doubt the VMCC has a Cotton marque expert - I guess this is where the world's Cotton expertise resides.

Leon

[R]

'With two JAP engines' would probably floor even the best Cotton 'experts' !

Although perhaps that means that one is a spare.....

[mark2]

found the cotton club , will see if they have any information thanks should have looked for them first really

[cardan]

Post some photos anyway. A vintage Cotton is a most unusual thing and I'm sure people would be interested.

Leon

[mark2]

No joy with the cotton club and not sure they are still going as they do not reply to emails etc. , I have some story’s to follow up so will try and trace the history myself . I am looking for a good cotton tank @ 1920s; I have to sweeten any deal a very nice original cotton wrap round  oil tank spare  I have only seen one other which was fitted to a Blackburn cotton , anyone interested?

[mark2]

 From a cotton novice Interesting frame design and why do some have a extra frame brace at the rear , this one looks like the casting is there but never used , see pic of oil tank for trade , this tank has a return ?

[mark2]

what are these forks please

[cardan]

Well they are pretty standard Druid forks, either built by Drew or built under license. The two tell-tale features are the dampers on the the lower front spindle with the unusual mounting point for the fixed friction plate of the front left leg, and the brake anchor very low on the same leg. This lug is so close to the wheel spindle that you'd have to think the maker didn't understand the physics of torque which dictates the brake plate is best anchored some distance from the spindle.

So let's say 1923-ish, with a small drum brake on the near (left) side of the machine. Of course it could be one of the lesser-known makers, or even Cotton?

Leon

[33d6]

Seems to me the obvious place to start for identification is with the VMCC. It's their area of expertise and they do have a Marque Specialist who should be some help.
I've just looked at the Cotton section in my copy of their Register of Machines and have to say Cotton frame numbers are all over the place. There must be some sort of internal logic to the frame number sequence but it doesn't leap off the page so to speak. The Marque Specialist should know.

Give them a try.

Cheers,

[mark2]

im not in the VMCC thanks

[mark2]

contacted the vmcc , they have no dispatch records for cotton and are unable to tell me model etc even if I pay the £25 so a dead end there

[cardan]

The joys of the (genuinely) vintage motorcycle!

I have a collection of unusual motorcycles for which there is no expert to consult. Information is usually hard-won, but the satisfaction level is very high as each snippet falls into place to build a picture of both the bike to be rebuilt and the people who put it together.

Cotton shouldn't be too hard. They were present at most of the major shows, they exported and they advertised. They feature in books and there are numerous survivors, and the suvivors have owners some of whom are sure to be knowledgeable.

As a starting point, can I suggest that you bolt together what you have, and take a couple of decent photos so we can see what you've got.

On the research front, collect every photo of a vintage Cotton you can find and order them by age.

Cotton models changed over the years, so from the details of the parts and the frame number I'd say there'd be no problem coming up with a date and model.

Leon

[P.V. Motorcycles]

As an alternative source of information, the VMCC's "Register of Machines" book has about two-and-a-half pages of various Cottons listed (including a handful of the late 50s-early 60s ones).

Frame numbers could fairly be described as 'all over the shop', but there are some three-figure numbers for early 20s stuff.

As suggested above, useful to see what we're discussing - it ought to be possible to make a fairly educated guess at what year it's from, even +/- five years, as a starting point.

The Sunbeam MCC in the UK has around a dozen Cotton catalogues/brochures spanning 1923 to 1939 (not all years covered), so it might be possible to narrow it down a bit and then get some reading material from a particular year.

Nick

[mark2]

thanks and I do have some leads which I will follow , I have also had a offer for the machine as it stands and may let this one go and use the money on another bike , a Norton inter ive also bought off the same person , the dispatch and history of this machine is easy to find so im told and maybe more useable , thanks for your ideas and help